{"id":2567,"date":"2019-03-04T21:15:57","date_gmt":"2019-03-05T05:15:57","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/?p=2567"},"modified":"2019-03-08T09:44:50","modified_gmt":"2019-03-08T17:44:50","slug":"disagreement-over-ocasio-cortez","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/?p=2567","title":{"rendered":"Socialism or Social Justice?"},"content":{"rendered":"

Tom Cantrell, a friend and a smart guy whom I respect immensely, wrote me an email questioning my stand on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I responded. We have different points of view. He has agreed that our discussion can go forward in this blog.\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>I have opened it up for others to contribute, but there are rules.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #1: This is my publication, these are my rules, if you don\u2019t like the rules, that\u2019s okay.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #2: No cheap shots. Some will say I take cheap shots. I will change something if I think I should, but see Rule 1.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #3: Stay on topic. We are not going to talk about the Meuller probe, or chem trails. Who decides what\u2019s on topic? C\u2019mon.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #4 (as of 9:00 a.m. March 8, 2019): You’ve buried me! I am unable to respond to the sheer volume of words coming in via email, Word .docs, comments, with photos, etc. <\/strong><\/p>\n

Therefore, limit your responses to ONE point. Under 500 words. Comments MUST be posted here, below. Sign in, do the Captcha dance, and I will try to get them up asap. If you want to drop me a note (“Hey, Erik, I put a comment up, where is it?”) that’s fine.<\/strong><\/p>\n

~ Erik Dolson<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n

\n

On Mar 4, 2019, at 9:06 AM, Tom Cantrell wrote:<\/strong>
\n<\/em>Erik, you are not really advocating Socialist governing concepts are you??<\/em><\/h4>\n

On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 1:21 pm, Erik Dolson wrote:<\/strong>
\nTom, that\u2019s such an open ended, loaded, and ill-defined \u201cgotcha\u201d question, I can\u2019t possibly answer it.<\/p>\n

Tell me what you mean and are referring to. Give me an example based on something I wrote or said. Disagree with the specific, and let\u2019s talk about it. If you want to discuss something, be fair in your question.<\/p>\n

To Erik Dolson:<\/em>
\nI do not intend to be rude but I do intend to be direct. The reason I asked was to understand why you have so much respect and agreement for AOC\u2019s (U.S. Representative\u00a0Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) thoughts and opinions. America is a Republic and AOC does not believe in a Republic system of Government. AOC has made it clear that she supports Socialist style of Government. There is a difference in making laws based on the support of the majority versus imposing laws that the minority believes are best for the majority. No gotcha, just curious.<\/em><\/p>\n

To: Tom Cantrell<\/strong>
\nTom, I have clearly stated that I disagree with some of her ideas:\u00a0\u201cI was skeptical at first and don\u2019t agree with everything she believes, but I do think she is fast becoming the most important political voice in America.\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

No support for socialism there.<\/p>\n

Again, you do not give me a specific statement that I made or that AOC has made to discuss. Show me where I have said, or for that matter, where AOC has said, that she promotes \u201cimposing laws that the minority believes are best for the majority.\u201d<\/p>\n

In any case, a minority can hope to pursuade a majority that there are other points of view. That used to be the strength of America. And there is no disagreement from me that some of her views are currently a minority opinion. That the right seeks to supress her ideas by saying they are unAmerican, as you do here, is an indication of their power.<\/p>\n

My enthusiasm for AOC has to do with her willingness to put in the work and ask tough questions. The first post noted her questioning the way corporations can and do buy senators and representatives and how this hurts ordinary Americans. The second was about AOC asking Trump\u2019s consiglieri Michael Cohen who knew what about possible racketeering by Trump.<\/p>\n

Nothing to do with socialism in either case.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

At 10 p.m. on March 5, Tom Cantrell wrote:<\/strong>
\nEric, my question was: “<\/span>Are you advocating socialist governing concepts<\/span>” ?<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span>I was not implying that you suggest imposing laws that the\u00a0minority think are best for the majority but you do\u00a0think she is a fresh voice.\u00a0 So I asked you a direct question as to your views\/advocacy on\u00a0Socialist governing.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

As for AOC, here is what she has said: \u00a0“<\/span>Yup. If you don\u2019t like the #GreenNewDeal<\/span><\/a>, then come up with your own ambitious, on-scale proposal to address the global climate crisis. Until then, we\u2019re in charge – and you\u2019re just shouting from the cheap seats”.<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

I am sure there will be other polls that some will point to but here is the best one I have seen and not only provides the exact question that was asked but also provides the demographics. https:\/\/remingtonresearchgroup.com\/green_new_deal_survey\/<\/span><\/a><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0As for the\u00a0Green Deal being a\u00a0socialist ideal here is another poll with good info. https:\/\/thehill.com\/hilltv\/what-americas-thinking\/432102-most-voters-view-green-new-deal-as-largely-socialist-poll-shows<\/span><\/a><\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0I can not\u00a0agree that I am suppressing her opinions, however if the majority of Americans do not agree with her or me,\u00a0it is not suppression it is free thought.\u00a0 I am not agreeing with\u00a0her that is clear.\u00a0<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

The real\u00a0irony\u00a0with the concern of suppression and BIG money in elections is the actions of the past to the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus.\u00a0 As we all know the IRS took a very long look at these groups and all conservative groups.\u00a0 The IRS\u00a0denied them 501-C status, investigated\u00a0conservative groups for months\/years and\u00a0even tried to fine them.\u00a0\u00a0So little said by so many\u00a0about their fight against\u00a0BIG money and it’s influence at that time.\u00a0 The fight is the same but the people are different, but now those fighting are a\u00a0breath of fresh air.\u00a0 I would call that discrimination.\u00a0 To be clear I am not\u00a0suggesting that you did this.<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

I agree that the\u00a0minority can or may convince the majority to change their line of thinking but I doubt it will happen. The attitude as been\u00a0broadcast by\u00a0the\u00a0Political Party Leaders\u00a0that a Party must stand shoulder to shoulder and vote the party line, no matter how bad the\u00a0legislation is or what it’s effect would be.\u00a0 Sure there will be one or two defectors but not enough to make a change.\u00a0 When one sees a party that has defectors in the range of 5 to 10 people\u00a0one should ask them selves a few hard questions about fair and free thinking or if they are also\u00a0just following the party line..\u00a0<\/span><\/em><\/p>\n

Our Fore Fathers provided us with the best solutions for\u00a0prosperity and Governance which can be proven by comparing\u00a0America to any other country in history for success and freedom for period of 242 years.\u00a0\u00a0Our Fore Fathers warned us time and time again thru the Federalist papers, Bill of Rights, Constitution and\u00a0multiple speeches\u00a0regarding\u00a0other systems of Government yet we seem to try to\u00a0flirt with the very things they warned us about.\u00a0 We are acting as rebellious teenagers and trying to do what has already been done but expecting different results. Looking at the political landscape, I\u00a0do not think the”\u00a0tyranny of the majority” has fueled that length of success and prosperity of America for over 200 years, in fact I think the opposite.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n

At 10:30 March 5, Erik Dolson replied:<\/strong><\/p>\n

Tom, this is a bit of a moving target, but I’ll do my best.<\/p>\n

Your first emails to me clearly indicate that since I expressed appreciation for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, that I was advocating “socialist governing concepts.” Your phrasing noted. Which is still not true, see argument above.<\/p>\n

It’s as if I’d said that since you’re a capitalist who favors deregulation, you want more people to have lung cancer, more lead in drinking water, tornados or wildfires to kill hundreds of people. I know that you are not in favor of poisoning children with lead in their drinking water. That’s the danger of labels, right?<\/p>\n

None the less, you did say that AOC favors minority rule, if you will pardon the short hand. Which I don’t think is true and you don’t really offer much evidence.<\/p>\n

The right wing has stuffed the media with mischaracterizations of what AOC said about the Green New Deal (which I do NOT support in total). It took 6 Google pages to get to an actual quote and that was from a British newspaper, once you get through “Glocknews” and the “Washington Examiner,” “Pig-in-the-Poke Daily,” etc. Six pages, that is not an exageration.<\/p>\n

Here is what AOC said:\u00a0\u201cSo people are like \u2018Oh it\u2019s unrealistic, oh it\u2019s vague, oh it doesn\u2019t address this little minute thing\u2019 and I\u2019m like \u2018You try! You do it!\u2019 Because you\u2019re not, so until you do it, I\u2019m the boss, How about that?\u201d<\/p>\n

See the words, “You try! You do it!” and\u00a0“\u2026until you do it?” She is putting ideas out there. Boy, does that have the right wing riled up. The first six pages of a Google search full\u00a0of fear and loathing that a 29 year-old freshman congresswoman said\u00a0 the planet is in danger and Americans need a future!<\/p>\n

Damn straight I think she’s becoming one of the more important voices in American politics. AOC is trying to start a discussion about what is possibly the greatest threat to mankind since the last comet hit the earth. She is trying to put Americans to work (albeit poorly, in my opinion). She is trying to address the corrosive influence of Senators for Sale.<\/p>\n

About damn time we had these dicussions in ways that Americans can understand.<\/p>\n

Your comments about the majority of people being opposed to her concepts or her words? A majority of people think we need a better health care system. A majority of people think Trump’s unfit for office. If you want to credit opinion polls, then let’s go with those, too, okay?<\/p>\n

Tea Party and Freedom Caucus?\u00a0I will admit to disparaging both. And some were targeted by the IRS for abusing the system, possibly some which had not. But they had a pretty good run until they got swallowed by Mitch McConnel and Trump Republicans who rammed through a non-conservative, hyopocritical, budget busting give-away to huge corporations which are not hiring more workers but using their tax break windfall to buy their own stock and prop up share prices, further enriching the top 1 percent.<\/p>\n

And when it’s time to cut the budgets, it will be the poor and middle class who will bear the burden because “America can’t afford these dangerous deficits.” The rich will scream “class warfare, class warfare” when they were the ones who started it.<\/p>\n

Remember how Main Street bailed out Wall Street? Wall Street took the money and gave themselves a raise.<\/p>\n

Slavishly following the party line? You’re talking about Republicans, right? Lockstep for years, now? Right? Okay, agreed.<\/p>\n

As to your comments about our form of govenment,\u00a0our forefathers, other forms of government, etc.? Non arguments, more of that “she opposes DEMOCRACY!” fear mongering, kinda like saying that since the sky is blue and chocolate tastes good, you’re on the side of right.<\/p>\n

The biggest threat to what our forefathers envisioned is sitting in the White House, tweeting Fox News releases to undermine the very principles you say are important.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Tom Cantrell, a friend and a smart guy whom I respect immensely, wrote me an email questioning my stand on Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. I responded. We have different points of view. He has agreed that our discussion can go forward in this blog.\u00a0<\/em><\/strong>I have opened it up for others to contribute, but there are rules.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #1: This is my publication, these are my rules, if you don\u2019t like the rules, that\u2019s okay.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #2: No cheap shots. Some will say I take cheap shots. I will change something if I think I should, but see Rule 1.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

Rule #3: Stay \u2026 Read more\u2026 → <\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2},"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[1],"tags":[574,105,440,583,582],"class_list":["post-2567","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-aoc","tag-corruption","tag-health-care","tag-rico","tag-trump-socialism"],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p3mcOb-Fp","jetpack-related-posts":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2567","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=2567"}],"version-history":[{"count":11,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2567\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":2595,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2567\/revisions\/2595"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=2567"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=2567"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/erikdolson.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=2567"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}